PCARS GT3 Challenge

Bloody oth i swerved all over the track to stop u passing on the straight from skipping the APEX and having 15 more kph out of the corner. How you didnt realise you were doing it is beyond me because while i was behind were weren't doing it. Once i passed you would gain redonk about of time.

I know i have drifted before but didnt really happen last race as far as i can tell.

But im over it happens.

Remember gents this was just a test series. Regardless of all else I've had a heap of fun racing. I think it's promising and with some more thrashing out of certain aspects. The biggest thing I've noticed however is that you can never be exactly sure of what's going on as I've noticed in some of the videos is that things vary in each different video I'll use finchy and giants incident as an example. In giant slayers video finchy appears to hit the wall and not spin however in sirniges masterpiece finchy appears to have a violent bust up when he hits the wall. Not everything is always as it seems at the time.

When i upload my video you'll see hard but fair racing from me and @thebigRAGOO_14 . Even if someone makes a mistake we make room for eachother. That's something i feel a lot of people can improve on. If you make a mistake, suck it up and stay wide if you know people are near you. Then check your mirrors. If no one is close or is taking advantage of your mistake then it's safe to go back to your racing line. That is one reason me and ragoo constantly have amazing battles. It's because we trust eachother and know what to expect. I'll also add that @Giant slayer he has done the exact same pass on me on the first corner after the first straight in a practice race. Again i saw him coming and allowed room for him. I could have easily tried to close the door but such manouvres usually end in contact/crash and slow both drivers down. I have raced giant enough to know he likes to pass clean and does his best not to make silly passes.

I'm a little guilty of using to much run off on the fast left hander on the back straight but i am trying each lap to fix my mistakes. Very hard to get that corner right when you have someone breathing down your neck. I eventually sorted that corner out. I'll add that corners like that i don't care if other people use too much run off, you don't gain any time doing it. It just means you hit the apex too early.

On eau rouge that is definitely one corner that you have to be careful not to cut too much as you can gain a huge advantage down the straight on someone that takes it properly.

Props again to @thebigRAGOO_14 as on one of the laps he cut a little too much through eau rouge and was catching me quickly and could have easily passed me down the straight. But he lifted and stayed behind me. Totally respect that.

Again it's your attitude when it comes to racing. I'm not here to win. I'm here to improve my race craft and have fun respectfull battles with other drivers. And i hope that's how i have come accross in my racing with you guys.

Anyway that's my two cents.
Cheers

Cobb, slayer, ad2 thanks for your views much appreciated.

This highlights why I think introducing personal judgment will cause problems, I would not issue any penalties for these incidents. Were they great examples of silky smooth precision racing definitely not they were small mistakes being made while pushing hard and racing at a tricky track. I can't see where any advantage was being gained or deleberate attempts to cheat was happening. The game physics penalise you for exceeding track limits by either making the car massively unstable over kerbs, increasing the distance you have to travel and more importantly reducing the grip and acceleration traction you have being off track v on it. There is no way the lines that were being taken in the video result in an advantage or improved lap time.

I have no problem if you outbreak yourself and cut a corner and end up in front or maintain a postion that should be readdressed but that is a lot different to running wide in corners. Similarly if the is a track glitch you discover that shaves 3 secs a lap that should not be allowed to happen.

Then there is the hatfull of issues of consistency of application, reviewing every corner of every lap and the fact that different videos appear to show different things.

I have also had a load of fun so far yes there are things to work on but I don't think something that involves personal judgment, incomplete information resulting in controversy should be near the top of the list.

If your excuse for going off track is pushing hard, then you're pushing too hard, and need to dial it back a bit to stay within the confines of the track, it's that simple, also you you gained an advantage by straight lining Eau rouge and used the quicker exit speed to make a pass, that is the definition of exceeding track limits to gain an advantage, obviously you can't seem to comprehend the driving standards that ROOZ tries to maintain. These standards have been implemented, tweaked and enforced over the last 5 years and many thousands of hours of racing by many dedicated people to create an environment of fair play and structured but fun racing.
You currently can't seem to accept that you have operated outside the standards that ROOZ tries to maintain and have broken an important rule, I would suggest that you take it on board, learn from the experience, stop trying to change something you've been a part of for all of 5 minutes and if you still have any problems I would recommend that if you don't like the way ROOZ operates then maybe you should stick to racing in the open lobbies, which may suit your style of racing better.

@Sir Nige,
Only just watched your video...
You can't rely on the game to hand out penalties 100% of the time.
No game can get things right, and there will always be glitches that stop this from happening.
That's why I said previously that we rely a lot on driver honesty.

Your racing on that video would have had you penalised quite harshly with the amount of times you went off track.

No offence, but if you say you can't see any advantages being gained on your side during that video, then I don't know if I want to be racing against you.

Also, I don't understand what you're trying to say with all this personal judgement thing,
the current method for dealing with indiscretions as detailed here:
http://www.raceonoz.com/forums/index.php?posts/9452/
read it carefully,
it will probably have to be slightly adjusted for Pcars but the basic application works, and to make it simple (not that its complicated);
if you witness to or are a victim of an incident, that you believe another driver is responsible for, or that he gains an unfair advantage from, you have the right to lodge a protest.
As per protest prodedure 1.
Save and watch the replay of your race to determine if you have grounds for a protest. Try to watch from both your car and the car of the driver you intend to protest against. Sometimes the network and online environment can glitch giving two very different versions of events.
If you deem the incident worthy of a protest, you then inform the room captain and submit to him the replay of the incident in question.
Then as per protest procedure 4;
The division captain will pass on the protest and any evidence to the ROOZ mods who will make an unbiased decision based on the evidence available to them.
The judgement is not personal but is determined UNBIASEDLY by the ROOZ moderators.
There is also the opportunity to appeal the mods decision, its all there in the link which you already have.
Basically it comes down to driver honesty, but also if you get caught and you probably will, by another driver who deems your actions illegal and the mods rule that way there will be consequences. So while there is currently no way to monitor every driver at every corner, nor should there be a need to if everybody is honest and fair enough, if you are doing something dishonest you will probably be called out on it.
As far a track limits go, if there is any grey areas these are usually identified pre-race and a warning given to stay within the limits at that particular part of the track if the game does not enforce it, once again driver honesty applies.

I am trying to comprehend the racing standards here as I don't think they are clear or plain (yes they were in a class thread but not in the main rules and regs or the first page of the league thread which would be the more obvious place, nor do they cover all situations). My honest and personal opinion is that none of those incidents warranty a penalty and I would not be reporting any of those issues, others on here would and that's my point about personal judgements they can be different.

I don't think I starightlined Eau rouge, during the practices there was a lot of chat about how to take that corner quickly, but there was certainly no talk of grey areas or warnings. I was struggling with it a lot and watched some of the guys who ended up at the front of the grid and they cut across the entry and held it flat, sometimes that were able to get through sometimes they weren't, when they didn't they were slower, as I was when I did not make it my video, if you are slower than you could be how is that gaining an advantage? In the practices I had one of the long term members of this forum watch a few of my laps and at no stage was I warned about excessively exceeding track limits. In the incident I overtook Dave and redeemer, Dave must of badly cut the corner and received the power cut message, something he was joking about at the end of the game (which happens when you are more to the left), redeemer must have made an even bigger mistake than me as I was past coming out of the kink, I don't think I gained an advantage as it is slower than the optimum line, it just happened to be less of a disadvantage than what happened to Dave and redeemer, I don't think it reasonable in a split second to process that and readdress particularly when we are not allowed to use mics. To my knowledge neither of those guys had an issue with the incident. Yet after posting the video I am told I would be excluded from the event, even though there were numerous other incidents visible in the video committed by other drivers. I am trying to understand how this works but all I keep hearing is this I how it's always been if you don't like it leave, yet this is supposed to be an open place to come and have clean racing.

@SuiCid3 I think the game does work it gives you harsh penalties if you blatantly cheat and penalises your lap time if you exceed the limits. I also take offence to your comment about my driving standards if you watch the video near the start when I run wide I stay wide and don't cut back on to the track until the straight so as not to catch slam out, I also give room to Dave through the next complex even though I could have closed the door and leaving it open caused redeemer to have pass in what i don't consider an overtaking place we touch and I could have driven off but get off the throttle and let him stay in front. Dave does a similar thing with me later in the video even though it costs him a place with finchy, its incidents like these I think we should be focusing on not running wide. I have not had any issues with my driving from any other players so far in this league and if we are going to throw stones I would suggest people who can't work out how to get the car off the line destroying and severely compromising people's races is worthy of a heavier punishment than someone exceeding track limits.

I understand this is how things are after thousand of hours practice etc and yes I have only been here 5 mins but that does not mean they can't be open to discussion and new ideas does it? Especially when it's a new game. You say you can't see how I operated outside rooz procedures I honestly don't think I did and I certainly don't think I was being dishonest or cheating. But then I can't see how you can say when an individual has an opinion on something that is not a personal judgment.....

Anyway I have learnt from the experience and I won't be posting any more videos

I still don't get you...
What's so hard to understand?
Everyone here wants to race hard and fair whilst keeping it clean and within the track boundaries.
That's our racing standards.

No one is saying you race dirty... we are saying you need to respect the track limits!
Most of us regulars don't need to be policed about this, because we respect each other enough to know that it's not on.
As someone mentioned earlier, when you exceed the track limits, you readjust yourself so you don't do it again.
Sure, it will happen every now and then, but in the video you posted, almost every lap has shown you OFF TRACK at Eau Rouge/Raidillon.

Luckily it's not up to you wether a penalty is warranted or not as I've taken great pains to explain that would be up to the mods if you were reported it would then be out of your hands regardless of your opinion, maybe the track limit issue wasn't discussed as much as was necessary but a lot of us know what is acceptable and what isn't and maybe we took it for granted theat people would use common sense obviously we were wrong frankly I'm sick of banging my head against a brick wall here and I'll just say this, man up accept you have made a mistake, learn from it, stop trying to tap dance around taking responsibility for your ignorance and move on,

From what I saw everyone was taking a fair bite out of eau rouge. Not the exit but entry. I'm sure with time when people play the game more they are going to get it sorted. I've played a lot with nige and know he ain't a dirty racer. Everything will work out for the good. As noxrai said the more you drive with someone the more you learn tendacies. We all just need too race more and when the serious series kick off by all means let's crack down on it. I think the group we currently have running it is great. I haven't seen a blatant bust up yet not should I expect too see one

And why couldn't say for tracks like spa with those tedious corners and have the room host or whoever don't care do a few laps and say "look fellas I know it looks juicy getting stuck in at eau rouge but let's keep it in the limits two wheels on the curb no more" the rumble strips larger at certain tracks then others so the potential is there to widen the corner.

yeah there is no excuse for my performance, kind of embarrassed as well, nothing more then poor preparation, though I wasn't sure what was going on with Nige when I went by, when I went through Eau Rouge if I went off circuit I'd lift off throttle and not make a passing attempt at the other end of the Kemmel straight,

because PCars is stupidly strict on not allowing us to view other parts of a replay then there may be no other option,

No one should be shamed for reporting people doing the wrong thing repeatedly, otherwise there is no point of a stewarding panel,

Project cars update

1.7 gig
More tracks maybe!

It would be patch 2.0 hopefully some handy fixes and nothing else gets broken
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?34129-Project-CARS-PS4-Patch-2-0-Release-notes

I'll be making sure next time I'm there I'll back off through the rouge .

@SuiCid3 if it makes you feel better I don't get you or this argument either. What I don't understand is how it is fair to apply race exclusion penalties when not everyone is subject to the same scrutiny, you admit it can't be policed properly. It maybe how things have been done around around here for 5 years but that does not make if fair and I have expressed my opinion and I am standing by it. You talk about driver honesty I don't think I was being dishonest by taking that line through Eau rouge I would not have posted a video of me doing it if I did and as I have pointed out that is not how I intend to take that corner and it is slower than taking it correctly. Redeemer took similar lines through it, it sounds like juzzy and Dave also had similar lines and I know several other drivers in that lobby did too. That corner was not discussed pre race nor were any comments made during practice races or by anyone else after the race I don't think that is being dishonest or cheating or tap dancing around responsibility.

I asked for clarification around this and was told that you need to stay within track limits and 2 wheels need to be inside the White lines and to read the rules and regs, there is nothing about track limits or two wheels in there, I was told to read the update from stu car again there is nothing about that, there was nothing in the front page of the league thread about it, slayer says the kerbs count, vh say the curbs don't count, how can you say that is clear and consistent?

What are the rules when both cars exceed the track and one gains a place? Where is that stated? Dave did it to me and nothing was said i did it to redeemer and I am told to man up and accept I made a mistake and I would be banned from the race, how can you say that is clear or consistent.

You say I need to respect track limits, this is the first time track limits has come up in this series, you say that regulars don't need to be policed and a lot of "us" know what is acceptable. What was going on in my video was very similar to videos from earlier races, go back and look (go on actually go back and look at them) at nox's and redeemer's donington videos there are cars well over the track limits at the bottom of the Craner curves and the chicane on the back straight and look at the monza videos on the exit of Ascari plenty of people outside the track limits yet nothing was said, how can you say that is clear or consistent?

Rather than take the time to listen, understand and respond to others comments or concerns and clarify in more detail the points you are trying to make, you throw you hands up and say this is how we always do it, get over it and move on, that's ignorance!

@CobMcCool better get a helmet so you can keep banging your head against the wall as I am not going to stop voicing my opinion just because the rooz racing gods who have been here for a while think newbies should keep quiet.

Hopefully this leads to a constructive debate with some clearly defined parameters, penalties and examples on track limits and gaining an advantage.

You posted here right?
http://raceonoz.com/forums/index.php?forums/new-members.7/

The top 9 threads are what all new guys to forums are directed to read prior to taking part in events.
Granted, these threads were created for the induction of the regular season, but they also extend to games outside of GT6.

Edit: A lot of you guys are new faces here, or old faces returning. Either way, the above section has all the rules and racing etitquette that we do our best to abide by.

In other news, Patch 2.0 is now available